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  Message 1 of 14  
11 Jul 12 01:09
ntdev member 132745
xxxxxx@yahoo.com
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Posts To This List: 8
create a thread for a user mode process through kernel mode
I wanna create a thread for a user mode process through kernel mode driver, how do i implement this?
  Message 2 of 14  
11 Jul 12 07:01
Don Burn
xxxxxx@windrvr.com
Join Date: 23 Feb 2011
Posts To This List: 650
Re: create a thread for a user mode process through kernel mode
The answer is no, you cannot create a thread or a process from kernel space. All of the things you want to implement involve user space support, so do them there. In general a good driver developer tries to balance the tradeoffs of kernel and user based code, since each have advantages, in your case the choice is easy, create a user space helper app to do the work in user space. Don Burn Windows Filesystem and Driver Consulting Website: http://www.windrvr.com Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr "xxxxx@yahoo.com" <xxxxx@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:179581@ntdev: > I wanna create a thread for a user mode process through kernel mode driver, how do i implement this?
  Message 3 of 14  
11 Jul 12 08:33
Doron Holan
xxxxxx@microsoft.com
Join Date: 08 Sep 2005
Posts To This List: 8276
RE: create a thread for a user mode process through kernel mode
What bigger problem are you trying to solve? d debt from my phone ________________________________ From: Don Burn Sent: 7/11/2012 4:01 AM To: Windows System Software Devs Interest List Subject: Re:[ntdev] create a thread for a user mode process through kernel mode The answer is no, you cannot create a thread or a process from kernel space. All of the things you want to implement involve user space support, so do them there. In general a good driver developer tries to balance the tradeoffs of kernel and user based code, since each have advantages, in your case the choice is easy, create a user space helper app to do the work in user space. Don Burn Windows Filesystem and Driver Consulting Website: http://www.windrvr.com Blog: http://msmvps.com/blogs/WinDrvr "xxxxx@yahoo.com" <xxxxx@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:179581@ntdev: > I wanna create a thread for a user mode process through kernel mode driver, how do i implement this? --- NTDEV is sponsored by OSR For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit: http://www.osr.com/seminars To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at http://www.osronline.com/page.cfm?name=ListServer --
  Message 4 of 14  
11 Jul 12 11:32
Joseph M. Newcomer
xxxxxx@flounder.com
Join Date: 20 Nov 2008
Posts To This List: 1892
Re: create a thread for a user mode process through kernel mode
You don't. You can't. And any design that requires it is deeply broken. There is no reason that the kernel shpuldhave to do this, it violates just about every security concept you could name, and that's why DLLs were invented: so interfaces could be neatly packaged in user space. joe > I wanna create a thread for a user mode process through kernel mode > driver, how do i implement this? > > --- > NTDEV is sponsored by OSR > > For our schedule of WDF, WDM, debugging and other seminars visit: > http://www.osr.com/seminars > > To unsubscribe, visit the List Server section of OSR Online at <...excess quoted lines suppressed...>
  Message 5 of 14  
11 Jul 12 13:46
Pavel A
xxxxxx@fastmail.fm
Join Date: 21 Jul 2008
Posts To This List: 1885
Re: create a thread for a user mode process through kernel mode
Why, this could be simply a linuxoidal habit. Each kernel has it's own taboos. In Windows you can easily access files in kernelmode, but launching a user process is no-no. In Linux, the opposite - you can launch a process, but opening files is no-no /* I guess, because there can be multiple chroots */ -- pa On 11-Jul-2012 18:32, xxxxx@flounder.com wrote: > You don't. You can't. And any design that requires it is deeply broken. > There is no reason that the kernel shpuldhave to do this, it violates just > about every security concept you could name, and that's why DLLs were > invented: so interfaces could be neatly packaged in user space. > joe > >> I wanna create a thread for a user mode process through kernel mode >> driver, how do i implement this? >>
  Message 6 of 14  
12 Jul 12 03:58
Maxim S. Shatskih
xxxxxx@storagecraft.com
Join Date: 20 Feb 2003
Posts To This List: 8629
Re: create a thread for a user mode process through kernel mode
> In Linux, the opposite - you can launch a process, > but opening files is no-no What about the notion of "kernel syscalls" in Linux? I think they are the same as ZwXxx in Windows. -- Maxim S. Shatskih Windows DDK MVP xxxxx@storagecraft.com http://www.storagecraft.com
  Message 7 of 14  
12 Jul 12 05:55
Pavel A
xxxxxx@fastmail.fm
Join Date: 21 Jul 2008
Posts To This List: 1885
Re: create a thread for a user mode process through kernel mode
On 12-Jul-2012 10:57, Maxim S. Shatskih wrote: >> In Linux, the opposite - you can launch a process, >> but opening files is no-no > > What about the notion of "kernel syscalls" in Linux? I think they are the same as ZwXxx in Windows. Hm, interesting. Haven't looked at these yet, and never seen a driver using these. -- pa
  Message 8 of 14  
12 Jul 12 09:08
anton bassov
xxxxxx@hotmail.com
Join Date: 16 Jul 2006
Posts To This List: 3495
RE: create a thread for a user mode process through kernel mode
> What about the notion of "kernel syscalls" in Linux? I think they are the same as ZwXxx in Windows. I just wonder where you are getting your info from, Max..... Anton Bassov
  Message 9 of 14  
12 Jul 12 09:44
Peter Viscarola (OSR)
xxxxxx@osr.com
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Posts To This List: 3930
List Moderator
RE: create a thread for a user mode process through kernel mode
BACK TO THE OP's QUESTION... <quote> I wanna create a thread for a user mode process through kernel mode driver </quote> Please explain what you mean. The answer could either be "you can't" or "you can" depending on what you mean. Better yet, please answer Mr. Holan's previous question: "what is the overall goal you are trying to achieve"? Peter OSR
  Message 10 of 14  
13 Jul 12 04:02
Maxim S. Shatskih
xxxxxx@storagecraft.com
Join Date: 20 Feb 2003
Posts To This List: 8629
Re: create a thread for a user mode process through kernel mode
> I just wonder where you are getting your info from, Max..... It was years ago when I've read the source, but there was a KERNEL_SYSCALLS macro. -- Maxim S. Shatskih Windows DDK MVP xxxxx@storagecraft.com http://www.storagecraft.com
  Message 11 of 14  
13 Jul 12 16:06
anton bassov
xxxxxx@hotmail.com
Join Date: 16 Jul 2006
Posts To This List: 3495
RE: create a thread for a user mode process through kernel mode
> It was years ago when I've read the source, but there was a KERNEL_SYSCALLS macro. .....which means you looked at it at least 8 years ago. Good go, if we take into the account that the code base has changed more than 35 times since then. Keep on impressing us with your "deep knowledge" of the topic... Anton Bassov
  Message 12 of 14  
13 Jul 12 17:14
Peter Viscarola (OSR)
xxxxxx@osr.com
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List Moderator
RE: create a thread for a user mode process through kernel mode
That wasn't very nice. Or, like, necessary or even related to the OP's question. Peter OSR
  Message 13 of 14  
13 Jul 12 19:55
anton bassov
xxxxxx@hotmail.com
Join Date: 16 Jul 2006
Posts To This List: 3495
RE: create a thread for a user mode process through kernel mode
> That wasn't very nice. Or, like, necessary or even related to the OP's question. Well, it was certainly unrelated to the OP's question. However, concerning being nice........well, imagine speaking with some UNIX guy who, in context of Windows NT discussions, speaks about lack of multithreading, reliance upon INT 0x13 for disk IO access and other features of 16-bit Windows, and does so on regular basis, without even making an attempt to find out what NT kernel is actually about - he had read some Windows book back in the year 1992, and sticks to this info in the year 2012. I guess you could afford to be a bit ironical with someone like that, don't you think..... Anton Bassov
  Message 14 of 14  
15 Jul 12 14:48
Maxim S. Shatskih
xxxxxx@storagecraft.com
Join Date: 20 Feb 2003
Posts To This List: 8629
Re: create a thread for a user mode process through kernel mode
>imagine speaking with some UNIX guy who, in context of Windows NT discussions, speaks about >lack of multithreading, reliance upon INT 0x13 for disk IO access Sorry, no. This UNIX guy (saw them personally in years 1999-2000) has an underground attitude of "Windows is inferior". What I've said about kernel syscalls in Linux is that "Linux is a good OS, it even has kernel syscalls". -- Maxim S. Shatskih Windows DDK MVP xxxxx@storagecraft.com http://www.storagecraft.com
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